Quick Hit: Submitted Without Comment… *Edited*

… because, really, what could I possibly say?

image credit

 

And now there’s video; this picture is NOT photoshopped:

Advertisements

33 Comments

Filed under Civics on Saturday, compassion and connection, concerns, critical thinking, doing my duty, ideas and opinions, politics, ruminating, social issues, technical difficulties, this is NOT a drill, Worries and Anxieties, WTF?!

33 responses to “Quick Hit: Submitted Without Comment… *Edited*

  1. Improbable Joe

    Clearly that officer’s life was in great danger, and he had no choice but to defend himself from all that democracy in action.

  2. I mean it, Joe; shit like this really scares me…

    • Improbable Joe

      Which part? The inevitable and completely not surprising police brutality? Or the fact that the cops commit their crimes in broad daylight and on camera, knowing full well that enough people are both piss-poor human beings and pathetically unfit citizens that they can get away with it with the vocal support of a non-trivial percentage of Americans?

  3. Brandon

    Time to go back to your dorm rooms now kiddos.

  4. Laurie B

    Hello Brandon, we, the people have the right to free assembly. This is not suposed to be a police state, despite what the police might believe. We have often given the wrong people the guns. Our bad.

    • Brandon

      Correct, the people do have the right to free assembly. But free assembly does not entail the right to permanently camp out on public property and never leave as we have seen in NYC and elsewhere. It would be one thing if there was a specific demand against UC Davis, that once met, would cause the students to disperse. But unless I’ve missed something, I don’t think that is the case here.

      • Why not? From where do you draw your assertion that people don’t have the right to camp out on public property? Would you be less offended if people took it in shifts; that there was still a 24-7 presence, but without the tents?

        The argument that there’s no specific demands is old and tired. I believe, however, that there WERE specific demands at UCD (tuition reform) and that the brutal response to that demonstration was what inspired the one in which the pepper spray incident occurred.

      • Brandon

        It is a common sense understanding of assembly that I base that on. It is beyond me why anyone would think they have the right to permanently squat on public property, other than an overblown sense of entitlement. Certainly in the case of public parks, squatting in them prevents others from actually being able to use the public space for what it was intended for. I suppose shifts would somewhat ameliorate the issue although I still feel mixed on the idea. I think that is what they are essentially doing now in NYC.

        I am being sincere when I mention no specific demands. I have been keeping up with all of this and I have no clue what the beef is, other than the big picture opinion about the differences in wealth distribution and Wall Street/Bankers that are responsible for all the economic problems.

        So what do they want done about it? Seems to me when you occupy an area, your plan is to cease occupying it once your demands are met. Barring the police involvement, what would have caused the NYC protesters to leave? Do they want higher taxes? Direct confiscation of wealth from the 1%? Caps on income? Some other kind of legislation to address their concerns? No more separation of powers? Free college tuition? A new Constitution?

  5. What I don’t understand about these people who are rooting for the cops to beat, disperse, and gas the protesters, is why are you taking glee in the abuse. For example, Brandon – name one thing that the protesters have done to disturb your life – one thing that affects your quality of living?

  6. Brandon

    They haven’t done anything that affects my quality of living. I suppose I could say that seeing their antics on display disturbs my life, but that I think would be stretching what you meant by the word.

    I’m rooting for the cops because I am glad to see these people who are abusing their right to free assembly dispersed. Many of these occupy movements are impacting the lives of others, especially in NYC. Residents in the area were having their lives impacted and businesses in the area – the 99% that these folks are supposedly for – were having their livelihoods impacted. Some have had to lay off workers as business is down that much.

    Never mind the fact that is is good to see the public health hazard that the encampment had become cleaned up. NYC had become a digesting pit of squalor, complete with the need for “rape-free” zones for the women.

    • Antics? Really?

      Again, I ask; how are people abusing their rights to free assembly? Doesn’t the First Amendment grant US citizens the right to peaceable assembly? I don’t see anything in that which dictates anything about the nature of that assembly other than it be peaceful (and, so far as I’ve seen, literally ALL the violence has come from without the protests).

      The point of protests, at least, as I understand them, is to MAKE the establishment uncomfortable. If we could ignore the protests, if they didn’t have any effect on our day-to-day, then what’s the point?

      Can you cite a source for your assertion that people have lost their jobs as a direct result of the protests, please?

      Finally, I would suggest that you do a little independent research before you start making assertions about a thing. Not only was NYC NOT a “digesting pit of squalor,” but there were libraries and medical tents and interfaith services. I know people who were there, and your characterization of the site is way off of the report they give.

    • Improbable Joe

      You’re rooting for the cops because you’re lacking in both basic citizenship and human empathy and decency.

      • Brandon

        Well gosh, I’ve been put in my place by that one Joe. Guess I better hang up my hat and head on home.

      • Brandon, do you GENUINELY see nothing wrong with what happened here?

      • Brandon

        I’m not particularly bothered by it but I can see why some people are. It would have been nice if pepper spray had not been used, but I’m not sure what else the police should have done to remove the students who were refusing to leave/block the police. I assume they were given warning about the spray, so they knew what they were signing up for by choosing to stay on the ground.

      • Kagen Alexander

        Nice, Brandon? It would have been nice?

        I’m sorry, but I can’t respond to that – or to much else you’ve said – with the kind of manners that Mrs. Chili deserves on her site. I think it would be very nice if you stopped talking.

      • Brandon

        Well, Kagen, I guess feel free to chime back in later if you want when your temper doesn’t have the best of you if you.

  7. Brandon

    Oh, I’ve done my share of independent research so I am not making unfounded assertions. I’ve read articles, seen photos and video. The fact that the NYC protest had libraries and medical tents does not mean that the conditions in the park did not become disgusting and unsanitary. And many of these occupy protests have had problems with crime and sexual assault. That’s great that you knew people who were there and I am not calling your integrity into question, but the problems around the protests have been covered a great deal.

    Here’s a few links for you regarding the business impact:

    http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/small-business-owners-occupy-wall-street-hurting-99/story?id=14926462#.TslKArJjM9o

    http://ology.com/politics/new-york-city-businesses-organize-anti-occupy-wall-street-protests

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204323904577038703815904944.html – “Marc Epstein, owner of Milk Street Cafe on Wall Street, who said he attended the Monday news conference on the invitation of a media outlet that he declined to name, said sales at his cafe had dropped 30% and he has had to lay off 20 of his 100 employees since the protest began.”

    You can find a nice collection of links here documenting the assaults, threats, drugs, illness, sexual assault and vandalism here:

    http://www.verumserum.com/?p=33490

  8. Improbable Joe

    See, here’s the real problem, the sickness that people like Brandon are indicative of: the idea that the law only protects people who we agree with, and that absolutely any level of violence is acceptable if only we disagree with someone enough. I don’t think that what people are protesting, or how long they stay, or how much Brandon hates hippies, or anything else really matters here. The point is that you have kids sitting on the ground not hurting anyone or threatening to hurt anyone. The police have no goddamned right to casually hurt people who aren’t hurting or threatening to hurt anyone, and if you think otherwise there’s something seriously wrong with you.

  9. Oink, oink, oink. Sayeth the pig.

  10. Brandon, I find your attitude particularly disturbing. Peaceful assembly and the rights to address grievances doesn’t have Constitutional limits. Are you against the Constitution? Or are you just for Municipal Regulations and Laws? But if you’re for Municipal Regulations and Laws, then you ought to also be for the unenforced SEC Regulations, which, if enforced would have prevented many of the speculative abuses which took this nation on an unprecedented spree of gluttonous gambling, right? You should also be for enforcing the Antitrust Laws that should’ve prevented megacorporations from forming in the first place?

    Or do you just like to pick and choose which laws and freedoms are distributed – anything for Corporations, since they are people, and anything against people, since they aren’t Corporations? Or so it seems.

    Me – I’m for the founding fathers, who believed in the right to protest and did so, even to the risk of their freedom and security, even to the risk of their property and lives. I’m for protesting, even when it’s not corporate-sponsored, or Koch Brothers Bussed and Catered. I’m for saying what’s on my mind, even when it’s not exactly pretty, but is still peaceful.

    And, finally, if there are illegal activities happening which threaten the safety and security of the protesters, then the POLICE have a sworn duty to protect those protestors . . . how about they do their actual jobs, instead of just the jobs the top 1% want them to do? How ’bout that?

    When you side with militarism and corporatism against citizens, Brandon, you are, in fact, and by definition, a fascist. That’s not hyperbole, sir. That’s reality.

    • Brandon

      Hi Rick. Yes we have those Constitutional rights, but it doesn’t mean one can start living in a public park for two months and disrupt the lives of the residents and businesses in the area because of one’s grievances. I’m not picking and choosing between the people and corporations. The owner of the park in NYC was very willing to try to work with the protesters, but they didn’t even want to leave, with the condition that they could return, when the park was in desperate need of cleaning and maintenance after conditions there had become very unhealthy and unsanitary.

      And here’s the thing, the police do have a duty to protect the people in the park, but the protestors in NYC didn’t want to cooperate with them. They formed their own “security committee” to investigate and patrol and encouraged women who had been sexually assaulted to not report it to the police. They did not want the help of the police and determined that they could handle everything in their little utopian experiment in communal living. They did not want any police involvement because that would be working with the enemy.

      Feel free to think I’m a fascist. I guess that is your reality, but it is certainly not mine.

      • Brandon, it’s not about “my” reality vs. yours. It’s about the definition of words and proper use of language. You, by your words and stated beliefs are a fascist. You can choose to not be a fascist if you want, but that will take behavior modification on your part. Now being a fascist is a perfectly viable and workable belief system to have – – you just have to believe that wealthy people and corporatists will manage the economy, military, legislation, and education of the nation better than non-wealthy citizens. This is the result of the glorification of wealth and of equating wealth with intelligence. Embrace it.

        Oh, and you’re parroting and it’s annoying. If I wanted to have a debate against discredited urban legends, I’d just lurk right-wing blogs. Not everything on Fox News or Rush Limbaugh happens to be true, in fact Fox News viewers are 18% less informed than people who don’t consume any news at all.

        Feel free to address me about liberties and the Constitutional Intent of our Founding Fathers, but no more about peaceful encampments being denizens of crime and filth. I’m interested in truth, not misdirection.

  11. Laurie B

    Brandon, have you figured out that you are in a converstion with some very smart people? I just opened the question, but the responders are all are very smart and eloquent thinkers. You may very well be right on the conditions at the OWS camp but still, the message is that American politicians should be hearing that the rest of us are fed up and want some changes made.

    • Brandon

      Hi Laurie. And that is what I been asking. What changes are all these occupy protests proposing? Yeah, I get that they are fed up, but that is all I get. I see lots of slogans on signs and have seen lots of videos of people railing against corporations, Jewish bankers, the 1%, the government etc., but no communication of what they want done to address their grievances. It just strikes me as the same talking points I’ve always heard from this segment of the left regarding capitalism and wealth. What do they want done to fix the problem? Seems like the only way to accomplish what I can only gather they want done would be to have a wholesale cleansing of the government, and I don’t just mean replacing all current Congressman and Senators, but a restructuring of the entire system of government for the country.

      At the very least it seems like I am starting to understand what some of the leaders in the occupy movements are getting out of this, as was recently reported in the NY Post…

      “A key Occupy Wall Street leader and another protester who leads a double life as a businessman ditched fetid tents and church basements for rooms at a luxurious hotel that promises guests can “unleash [their] inner Gordon Gekko,” The Post has learned. The $700-per-night W Hotel Downtown last week hosted both Peter Dutro, one of a select few OWS members on the powerful finance committee, and Brad Spitzer, a California-based analyst who not only secretly took part in protests during a week-long business trip but offered shelter to protesters in his swanky platinum-card room.”

  12. Laurie B

    Brandon,

    Sadly, crime and sexual assault happen every where, that’s not unique to OWS encampments. It happens in churches, it happens on every univerity campus, it happens in life. It shouldn’t, but, it does. It’s also not uncommon among people at any level of society and/or any income level, sometimes rich guys rape the babysitters. Those numbers include all of the spectrums including those that are either just out of the military, or under-employed, or un-employed, or homeless, or otherwise eligible for governmantal care that we don’t provide. I’m thinking VA here. How many “or’s ” there do you have among your own friends and family? Just asking.

    As for OWS protestors abusing their right to free assembly? S’cuse me? Free assembly, right? Oh, you read CV Rick, right? I’m reduntant here..We can gather anytime, any where, on common ground for any reason. Ok, you go ahead and tell me, and all of us, why pepper spray was used on non violent protesters? We are now living within a police state, it’s been hidden behind TSA up until now, and that’s what we’re living with. Pepper spray on innocent and non violent witnesses for peace? Really? Who ar ethey afraid of? I may not ever fly anywhere again for putting this out there but it’s time somebody does.

    Newt said to 25 million people today, including the OWS folks, take a bath and go get a job. Yeah, with Fannie Mae like you did Newt, and we all expect to pick up 1.8 mill for our paycheck too.

    Really, Brandon, can you get past your politics and find your humanity? Stick to your party line and I’ll hire you for $1.85 per hour with no benefits because Pres Bachmann says that the jobs will go to the folks most willing to work for the least per hour. Oh, yeah, then the rest of us can all pay for your food stamps and health care out of our taxes, what? more taxes? Shit, no, you voted against that. Sorry dude, work full time for Fart Mart, and starve for a long time and then die on your own. Yeah, now were talkin’. This is what you wanted, right?

    • Brandon

      With all due respect Laurie, excusing the crimes and sexual assaults that have taken place at these encampments because these same things happen in society at large is a cop out. I never knew it was apparently so common for these things to take place at a protest movement. The occupy movements have become an embarrassment and they appear to have drawn out a large concentration of less than upstanding citizens. This does not mean that everyone involved is like that, but the number of incidents surrounding what is a relatively small number of people is quite surprising.

      And don’t be too concerned about not being able to fly because of your comments. That seems a bit paranoid and sounds like something that the “black helicopter” crowd would be saying. And like you, I am no fan of the TSA, despite the fascism that Rick has said I am a part of.

  13. Kagen Alexander

    Turns out Brandon’s just parroting back all the arguments. One wonders if he thinks for himself at all…

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/11/21/1038117/-Some-easy-debate-tips-about-OccupyWallStreet-that-you-can-use-in-the-media-or-at-Thanksgiving-Dinner

    • Brandon

      So let me see if I can get this straight, Kagen, since I’m not too bright and can’t really think for myself. You imply that I’m simply parroting arguments and conclusions that I couldn’t have managed myself. And to support that claim you link to a Daily Kos article that provides suggested answers that one should provide when faced with one of the many arguments and critiques against the OWS movement – talking points if you will? Seems to me you missed the irony in that one.

      It’s completely disingenuous to imply that I can’t think for myself. I don’t agree with the responses in this post, but I would never imply that the individuals who state them can’t think for themselves and that they are merely stating what someone else told them they should say.

  14. Improbable Joe

    If true, this should just thrill Brandon to tears: https://twitter.com/#!/SultanAlQassemi/status/137907082228809728

    Isn’t it every right-winger’s dream to bring a Middle Eastern dictatorship to America, with Christianity replacing Islam and everything else the same? It used to be their dream to build a capitalist Soviet Union, but that’s so 1980s (and they’ve made some strides in that direction in any case).

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s