Wordy Wednesday

I have an intellectual/emotional problem, and I’m looking for some insight from voices outside my own head.  Help a Chili out, wouldja?

image credit

I’ve been struggling with this question for a while, but the recent explosion of discussion on my radio and t.v. have pushed the issue back into the forefront of my thinking.

This afternoon, I was listening to some folks talking about some of the candidates on NPR’s Talk of the Nation (now that the primary season is in full swing, I imagine I’m going to hear a lot more of this kind of thing, but that’s not what this post is about).  At one point, someone piped up that he knew Rick Santorum (google it!) and claimed that “he’s really a very nice, likeable guy.”

Oh, really?  No; really?!  That’s not the impression *I* get.  In fact, I’m having a hard time imagining ANY of the current batch of Republican contenders as nice people, given the vile and ugly I’ve been listening to them spew over the last year or so.

Let’s review some of Mr. Santorum’s highlights, shall we?  We all know (or, we should by now) that he earned his ugly google reputation by spouting this lovely screed within the hearing of others:

“Every society in the history of man has upheld the institution of marriage as a bond between a man and a woman…. In every society, the definition of marriage has not ever to my knowledge included homosexuality. That’s not to pick on homosexuality. It’s not, you know, man on child, man on dog, or whatever the case may be. It is one thing. And when you destroy that you have a dramatic impact on the quality.”

Earlier this week, he equated black people to public programs with this little nugget:

“I don’t want to make black people’s lives better by giving them somebody else’s money.”

He’s also in favor of letting states not just limit eliminate a woman’s access to abortion, but to ban contraception outright, saying that “The state has a right to do that [outlaw contraception], I have never questioned that the state has a right to do that. It is not a constitutional right, the state has the right to pass whatever statues they have.”

There’s the holy trinity right there – gays, blacks, and women.  Our boy’s battin’ a thousand.

Here’s what I want to know – and I GENUINELY want to figure this out, because it’s starting to affect the way I think about people I care about who identify as Republicans – can someone think this way and still be a good person?

I suppose we have to decide what a “good person” is and, to me, that begins with a general compassion and concern for one’s fellows.  Thus far, EVERY SINGLE REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE has said something – or said that they support something or would eliminate something or, or, or… – that shows a blatant and, to my mind, callous disregard for one’s fellows.  If you genuinely believe that women shouldn’t have the right to control their own bodies, or that gays should be subject to (at least) public scorn or (at worst) capital punishment, or that blacks are criminals or freeloaders, or that health care is a privilege only for those who can afford it, does it really MATTER if you’re nice to your wife or you’re generous with your donations or you don’t kick your dog?  If you believe these things – or you support people who believe these things – does it really matter that you’re fun at parties or that you’ll pick a friend up at the airport at an inconvenient time or that you always obey the speed limit?  Isn’t there more to being a good person – a genuinely good person – than the outward appearances to those closest to you?

I think there is, and it’s something that I’m struggling with.



Filed under compassion and connection, concerns, critical thinking, dumbassery, frustrations, GLBTQ/Ally issues, ideas and opinions, politics, ruminating, social issues, this is NOT a drill, WTF?!

39 responses to “Wordy Wednesday

  1. I like this post and your reasoning, and I’m going to make this comment brief, even though it’s a complex topic you’ve brought up. To the point of the post’s graphic – – Any person who treats different people in different ways believes in and supports a stratification of society and strives to reach the upper levels of these classes. As such, they will always treat those they believe are lower than them with less respect and courteousness than equals and those higher. This means that when a person climbs above you, he will start treating you like shit too.

  2. Improbable Joe

    I think it almost matters MORE how you treat people for whom your have no particular connection or from whom you get some sort of benefit(including emotional). Anybody can be nice to their own friends and family and general social circle. Some people… OK, Republican politicians… act as though once you get outside of “your people” those “other people” aren’t actually human beings. Even the charity they do seems to be based on obligation to church and their imaginary sky daddy, not any obligation to the people who are in need.

    So yeah, after a hard day of voting against the rights of the weak, and in favor of transferring wealth and power to the already wealthy and powerful, I couldn’t care less if these asshats play with their dog and help the kids with homework, they aren’t good people.

    • Improbable Joe

      BTW, there are levels of bad people. Rick Santorum is probably worse than almost everyone who would vote for him, but anyone who would vote for him probably isn’t much of a prize either. The people who act on what the Republicans spew are even worse… some of them are terrorists, in fact. So the guy who beats up someone for being gay is maybe marginally worse than the Santorums of the world who create a social atmosphere where that’s acceptable, and who are a little bit worse than the people who vote for and support them.

      We’re not talking “round them up and shoot them” bad for the most part… but I’m not inviting a Santorum supporter to dinner either.

  3. I think yes. But I also think that I don’t want to go to far down that path because it’s so easy to say of me “She’s a good person except…” And I think that’s true of pretty much everyone. There’s something wrong with all of us. I just don’t know exactly where the line is. It doesn’t help that it seems like political candidates these days are simply a matter of choosing the least of the evils. I joke all the time about voting for my cat. If we had write-in, I probably would vote for her.

    That was probably terribly unhelpful. I’m sorry for that. I agree that there’s definitely a line somewhere, but I can’t for sure tell you where it is. I also know that those people who are close to me that espouse these candidates generally don’t know the worst of their evils. That doesn’t mean that they’re right. It just means that they didn’t know. Of course, my family is full of people who can’t use google, so it’s probably not a fair sampling.

    Again, I’m sorry for my general lack of assistance. I’d also like to apologize for rambling and for telling you things you’ve very likely already considered.

  4. People typically make decisions about things on based on their belief system. Their beliefs are formed over time and are a result of a number of factors. If a person feels like gay people should not be allowed to be married based on those beliefs, I don’t think this makes him or her a bad person. Their beliefs obviously don’t line up with mine but it doesn’t mean that I can’t have some respect for the person. Why? Because I believe in being nice to people even if they are not nice to me. Even when they actively deny me rights that are afforded to my hetero peeps.

    Good is a relative term. To you, it means giving every person equal rights AND not kicking ones dog. To some, just not kicking the dog is enough. I wonder if in a way, you are thinking the way the asshats are about gay people, black people and women? To them, they are all second class citizen. We agree that that is not nice. Should asshats also be considered second class citizens? I think not.

    I honestly find myself having more and more compassion and empathy for them. I have come to a place where I feel like the tighter one holds on to a value system where he feels the need to be above or better than another human being, the more I feel like he is insecure and afraid. That just sucks.

  5. Could be he is. I have several close friends with whom I disagree about nearly *everything*. Doesn’t make them bad people. One guy likes Santorum as the best candidate, but supports Romney because, “he can win.” He’s against any abortion because, “you may be aborting the next Jesus Christ.” All of that is bullshit in my purview, but doesn’t make him any less of a decent guy. He’s adopted three Korean children. He adopted the first, then the family called a year-and-a-half later and offered the sister for adoption. He felt the siblings should be kept together. About 2 years later, they called again with a brother. He was broke and had to borrow from his in-laws for the fees, but felt it was the right thing to do. Is he a nice guy or not? I think what your post uncovers is that NOTHING is as simple as black-and-white. Binary thinking is what has put us in this collective mess as a nation. I’d avoid the whole topic and not bother to save the image you posted, but that’s just me.

  6. There is an infatuation with Sociopathy in this country. No one will just come out and say that, but it’s true. People are no longer human beings, they are human resources and can be cast aside, fired, evicted, and thrown off assistance programs because that’s the “price we have to pay for prosperity.” These good people will say to each other and to themselves, “I wouldn’t personally do such a horrible thing to another person,” but when it’s hundreds of thousands of people and we don’t personally know any of them it’s okay. It was probably their own fault – something they did or choices they made. I had nothing to do with it because I’m a good person.

    Sociopathy is still a mental disease whether you are afflicted or just support someone who is. I’ve heard so many times that you can’t be successful in business unless you treat people like objects and do everything within the law – morality be damned – to get ahead. Most don’t even use the law as a guideline. Do unto others has become Do Unto Others FIRST. It’s the new Rule of Gold, rather than the Golden Rule.

    • Improbable Joe

      I come out and say it every day, and twice on Sundays. 🙂

      It starts with “I’m successful because I’m a good person and I deserve it” and ignoring all the luck and privilege that some have and others don’t, but it is kind of a natural impulse. It becomes sick and anti-social when it grows into “Those people are unsuccessful because they are bad people and deserve to suffer” and then extends that thinking to children as well.

  7. From a facebook friend:

    I struggle with this too, mostly with my own parents, who are constantly talking about how wonderful the replublicans will make everything and I am like ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?

    They do stupid things, like tell me to go to the doctors and it’s ok that I do not have insurance because there are programs for that and I am like NO there is not because the stupid republicans took it away!

    That is where their thinking ends – it’s a world of no comment, just eye blinking, as if since Fox News did not tell them what to say, they have no answer
    Except that Obama is bad

    And what do you do what the people you love sat terrible things, like make fun of a gay cousin or make a racist joke? I have BANNED all conversations with me that deal with gays, religion and politics because I need to love my parents and if they open their mouths, I will hate them

    Do I think they are nice people? My daughter, who can still face the world fearlessly because she does not know any better, would say no they are not. BUT she loves them anyway, but hates their opinions and screams and yells about it when we get home

    • I apologize in advance for the graphic nature of this comment.

      I had to stop communicating with my father when, during the Bush-Cheney era I asked him if he was okay with our military torturing Iraqis by taking a young boy and crushing his testicles in front of his father in order to get information. He said, “So long as it saves American Lives.” Such an unquantifiable answer – pre-programmed ridiculousness.

      It’s not hate, they believe, if it’s directed at people they don’t know. It’s not hate because bad things were done in the Old Testament in the name of God, or even by their God. It’s not hate if you can be made to believe that they aren’t people, but instead are labels – terrorists, criminals, parasites (see Ayn Rand). It’s not hate until it’s you. Then, all of a sudden it’s wrong.

  8. Everybody running for office suffers from megalomania. People with megalomania are incapable of being nice. Thus endeth the lesson.

  9. No doubt Santorum is evil and would be incredibly callous to fellow human beings. He’d probably start a new war every 6 months or so, killing hundreds of thousands of people each and every year that he was in office. He’d probably pass a law doing away with posse comitatus so that he could turn his military against his own people. He’d probably go so far as to create a law that allowed him to throw his citizens in prison with absolutley no charges and no due process for as long as he wanted. If anyone dared to stand in his way, he’d kill them or make them disappear without a shred of remorse, essentially becoming what we think of as a stereotypical third-world tyrant. Don’t let outward appearance fool you and don’t vote Santorum.

    • Improbable Joe

      Yeah, but that’s all of them… all Republicans and half the Democrats. Except Ron Paul, who would cede power to do all of those things to the states… I’m not sure it is better to be subjugated by a governor rather than a president, personally.

  10. Brandon

    Chili, your post reflects an attitude that seems much more prevalent on the left, than the right. It seems, generally speaking, that those on the left don’t simply disagree with people on the right, but tend to personalize those disagreements and characterize those who hold those opposing views as bad or evil.

    Please don’t misunderstand me to say that you do this, as it is quite evident by the topic of the post that this is something you are struggling with and there have been responses here that have confirmed this general attitude, while there have been others that didn’t. I’m also not saying that people on the right don’t do this, but I do think it is much more prevalent on the left.

    It is something that has puzzled me. While I certainly disagree with most of the political viewpoints expressed here, I don’t think that you, or anyone else who holds them is a bad or evil person. I would assume that the people you know that are Republicans and that you care about are good people, otherwise I doubt you would care for them in the first place.

    • Are you actually claiming that the far right firebrands don’t personalize their criticism of those they consider “liberal?” If so, you and I aren’t living in the same universe. (But don’t worry, I don’t discriminate against folks from parallel universes).

      • Improbable Joe

        No, I think he’s saying that me and Rush Limbaugh are equal and opposite forces of power and influence for our “sides.” It must be something like that, because demonizing Democrats is a primary action of the Republican Party, while compromise and comity with Republicans is a primary principle of the Democrats on a national level. You have to dip down to bloggers and blog comments to find anything remotely as strident as what every Republican politician and media organization says pretty much all the time.

      • Brandon

        I wasn’t making any claim regarding far right firebrands, but I did make a point to specifically say that this happens on the right as well. In commenting on Chili’s post, I wasn’t particularly referring to what public figures say to one another in the course of politics, but the attitudes and opinions expressed between “the rest of us” or the opinions expressed towards specific politicians, political parties or other public figures.

        Chili didn’t seem to be concerned with whether she should think Rick Santorum was “good”, but rather if she should think less of people in her own life that she cared for that were Republicans and could have viewpoints similar to Rick Santorum, or otherwise hold other views with which she disagrees.

    • Brandon,
      I am a liberal – a progressive if you will. In the past ten years here are some of the things I have been told (not on the internet, but in person): Liberals are terrorists, Liberals want Muslim rule of this country, Liberals shouldn’t be allowed to vote, Liberals should be shot on sight, Liberals are communists and deserve to be in Guantanamo, Liberals are stupid, Liberals are traitors. This doesn’t count what has been said on talk radio, Fox News, and by candidates themselves.

      Here is my response, and it’s simple – If you support dehumanizing policies or vitriolic political ideals, you are not a nice person.

      I don’t care if you love your grandmother and bring stuffed animals to the Children’s ward of your local hospital. Plenty of bad people do good things, but good people don’t do bad things.

      • Brandon

        Rick – Yes, those are pretty crappy things to have been told and given the heated nature of political debate, it unfortunately is not surprising to hear. It is a bit ironic that in this very thread of comments the terrorist label has been applied to the other side, but again, it is easy to end up in a pissing match over which side demonizes the other more. Your comments have always been very civil.

        I guess my question to you is, based on your simple response – From your point of view, what qualifies as dehumanizing policies or vitriolic political ideals? I suspect that based on my viewpoints, I would fall into the category of not being a nice person. I could be wrong, so I guess it isn’t fair to speculate before you’ve been able to respond, but I guess that’s what I was driving at more in the comments to Chili’s original post. She seemed to be struggling with her opinion of people she knows and cares about because they are Republicans and for no other reason than that. Now if I have misunderstood what she was ultimately getting at, then I stand corrected if that isn’t the case.

        I also don’t quite follow how you can say that bad people can do good things, but good people can’t do bad things. Why is only a one way street? Maybe the disconnect is what we are both understanding good and bad to mean, but I don’t see how good people are immune from screwing up and doing bad things.

      • Think of it this way. A classic prohibition mobster would kill people, maim them, break legs, etc. He would run a criminal organization which could have liquor, rigged gambling, prostitution, etc. He’s not a nice person even if he comes home, kisses his wife, plays with his kids, and has family dinners with all his brothers and sisters. He’s just not a nice person, irrespective of all the personal testimony and character witness of those around him. He will never been a nice person, despite the nice things he does, the charities he fronts, and the public face he projects. There are no amount of good deeds that cancel out a bad inner character. This isn’t a scale with balances. His wife, who supports her husband and knows what he does for a living isn’t a nice person. His brothers, sisters, and mother, who support him and think he’s a great guy, but know where his money comes from aren’t nice people. These are all enablers and accomplices, they aren’t nice people.

      • Brandon, think of the apple metaphor. It’s true that one bad apple can spoil the barrel. One rotten deed or attitude taints your character. Yes, it’s a one-way street. Dude, life isn’t fair either, but you can’t be a good person just because you do a few good things. You have to be a good person because you do no bad things.

      • Brandon

        To make sure I have some clarity here, let me bring your example back around to the political arena, since this is essentially what kicked this whole thing off. If Rick Santorum, Rick Perry, Newt Gingrich, etc. are bad people, are those people who support them/vote for them, the same as the brother, sister, and mother in your prohibition mobster example? Enablers and accomplices?

      • I’m going to go back to my Holocaust training here, Brandon. In this field of study, people are typically classified into four categories: victims, perpetrators, bystanders, and rescuers. I would argue that there is a fifth category; those who genuinely don’t know what’s happening, whether they are simply not paying attention, they’re being actively deceived, or they’re too young or too feeble to understand.

        My thinking echos Rick’s here; if you KNOW that something terrible is happening, if you KNOW that someone is behaving (or would behave, if given the right conditions) in a way that you find repugnant, then YES, you are at the very least an enabler (I think “accomplice” requires active participation). A huge part of my personal practice of personhood is that I refuse to be a bystander. THAT’S what this musing is about; I am trying to discern where my “edges” are in terms of what I can and cannot abide in my environment.

      • Yes, Brandon. You have it exactly right. We live in a representative Republic, and that means that by our votes we signify who we endorse with the nation’s direction, policies and morality. In a democracy, we are the government and the government’s actions are our actions. If it’s not that personal to a citizen then that person has no business casting a ballot.

  11. I think it’s complex. Hell, I know it is. It’d be stupid to think otherwise. Taken on its most basic level, though, I see something adjacent to the “good people vs. bad people” debate. When I encounter someone who is unkind to a waiter or a receptionist or a bank teller I automatically think they’re stupid. It’s profiling and, as Tater Salad has taught us, profiling is WRONG but I can’t help it. This assumption gets magnified when the person perpetrating the mistreatment is in a personal opinion-dependent profession, like politics. Waiters and receptionists and bank tellers don’t make policy but they can accidentally spit in your soup, drop your call, mix up your account numbers to cause an overdraft. They can also comp your dessert, make your message a priority, and scooch your deposit in on today’s records even though it’s 3:05pm. Treating them like shit can make your life harder. If you think the bad shit happens because people in those jobs are stupid or lazy well, as my grandmother always said, you may be right but I don’t think so. An actor who offers a chocolate to the receptionist has a demonstrably better chance of hearing, “Let me see if I can catch him” than “He’s gone for the day” (aside “You’re gone for the day, right?”). Being a politician or a community leader or a teacher is about team-building. Alienating the first person you encounter immediately kneecaps your team. They can still win but it’s going to be harder than it needs to be. I don’t, of course, agree with everything Obama and Clinton ever did but they are probably the two best team builders our political system has seen in a long time. Team builder of the generation? Well, maybe Jobs, but I think he was more of a strong armer. It’s hard to say.

  12. I have been struggling with this myself, moreso this election year than previous ones. But when you have people willing to vote for candidates who say & do the things you have already pointed out (plus the lovely claim that demons are responsible for homosexuality), it’s hard not to lose respect for them. I have been purposely staying away from facebook because of the deluge of nonsense & even outright hate speech I have been seeing. And regarding Brandon’s comment, I understand what he is saying, but I don’t think you are doing what he claims you are. And I certainly see a lot of it coming from the far right. Much of what I see posted from the right directly attacks my morals simply because I fall on the left. I don’t have an answer to your questions, but I sure wish I did.

  13. Michelle Bachman vs. Julia Sugarbaker

    This seems appropriate for your argument.

  14. Brandon, I’m not struggling with liking people who are Republican or, more specifically, not liking them only because they are. I’m struggling with liking people who genuinely believe things that I find contrary to what good people believe.

    Look, I’m not looking for sterling perfection in people. What I AM saying, though, is that I need to determine where my own personal lines are.

    The other day, I saw a bit of the 60 Minutes interview with Santorum. In it, his wife basically said that she’s pro-choice and pro-marriage equality; two things about which her husband is staunchly (some – including me – would say “rabidly”) against – to the point where he’s trying to make a career out of limiting others’ rights.

    What struck me was that there is no way – NO WAY – I would be able to marry someone whose energy was so wrapped up in denying women and gay people what I think are those basic, essential rights. I don’t care how charming or handsome or rich that person was; if his essential values were THAT different from mine, I would not be able to carry on a relationship with him

    That’s where I’m coming down now. I’m not saying that people whose values differ from mine can’t be nice – I’m sure that there are a lot of people who do terrible, despicable things but who are lovely and sweet and kind to their friends and family. I’m also not saying that I can’t be friends with people who think differently from me. What I AM saying, though, is I don’t know if I’m able, in good conscience, to put energy into a relationship with someone who genuinely believes things that I think are essentially contrary to what makes a human being decent. I’m having trouble coming to terms with offering my friendship to someone who doesn’t think, for example, that I have autonomy over my own body, or who honestly thinks that it’s okay to deny others (blacks, homosexuals, poor people, immigrants, insert-‘other’-here) their basic rights. My struggle is with where those lines are – what my deal breakers are – and how to reconcile them to my relationships.

  15. Sure, the pendulum tends to swing as a reaction to various factors and matters that took place in a previous election cycle. But, here is what conservatives tend to miss: denouncing the rights of people is not a value. If I am a black gay atheist, I should be allotted every bit of liberty to express my values seeing that they do not infringe upon the rights and values of others.

    Unlike Mrs. Chili, I greatly despise many conservatives for their basic rejection of my values. How in the world can a state tell me who I cannot and cannot marry when there is a thing called the contract clause in the Constitution. If that is the case, I guess conservatives will also tell me that I cannot bring my white wife to their state.

  16. Improbable Joe

    I think something that Brandon is (intentionally?) missing is what the stakes are in this conversation. No one is talking about dehumanizing Republicans, but can’t we choose who we should be friends with or not? Like I specifically said, I don’t think anyone should be shot(or put in camps, or arrested, or lose their jobs other than politicians who should be voted out), but that doesn’t mean I have to invite them over for dinner. It isn’t demonizing someone to say “your positions and/or the positions of people who you support are so far removed from my principles and values that I cannot in good conscience extend my friendship to you.” That’s fair, I think.

    Brandon, my opinion of you is more or less entirely negative. I don’t think you’re a nice, honest, or good person, based on what little I know of you. Not a monster or a demon or the worst person who ever lived, just not someone I’d be friends with. That doesn’t mean I want bad things to happen to you, it just means I think you should change and be a better person. And while I’d go to bat for your free speech rights, administer first aid to you if you were injured, or pull someone off you if they were beating you up, that doesn’t mean I would lend you $20 or ever hang out with you. You need to understand the difference between what your side says about us and what we actually think about you.

  17. Brandon

    No, I’m not missing what is at stake here. Of course anyone can decide on what basis to be friends with someone and we use all kinds of criteria in determining that. We all naturally gravitate towards those who share similar beliefs. What Chili initially said was that is was starting to affect the way she thought about people she cared about. So I took this to mean people who were already in her life, that she had some degree of friendship with. Not mere acquaintances, or anyone else she might currently have only a passing association with, but people with whom severing ties over political viewpoints would seem a bit much given the existing friendship.

    You are of course free to not extend your friendship to anyone you choose, which appears to be anyone who is conservative. What if you didn’t initially know the political views of someone that you had developed a friendship with? Maybe those sorts of topics hadn’t ever come up but you had hung out, determined that you both had other shared interests and generally seemed to hit it off. Would you cease a friendship with that person once you found out? I’m assuming the answer would be yes. This is why I initially said that I felt this was more of an issue with those on the left than the right. Conservative viewpoints are so anathema to you and many on the left that you can’t even fathom being friends with someone who would hold those views.

    • Brandon, I have been friends with Conservatives – I’ve worked with them, am related to them, and had them as close, personal friends. And I’ve taken huge amounts of abuse, insults, direct slander on my intelligence and character for it. I’ve had to put up with gloating and cheerleading and straight-out talking point lies heaped onto me. For my own mental health and my peace of mind, I don’t have to subject myself to that kind of abuse. I don’t have to invite it into my life.

      For Conservatives, politics is a game with two sides and there is an “anything to win” “end justifies the means” mentality. It’s a football game or a boxing match or whatever other analogy you’d like, They hate the other side with their words and actions and then to your face they say, “but it’s nothing personal.” That phrase gives them license to the most vile vitriol imaginable.

      But it’s not a game. There are real world consequences to policy and legislation. People die and starve and go jobless and get sick. It’s not a game, it’s a struggle for the soul of a nation.

      Conservatives want all government to die and go away, except for the punitive parts – military with which to kill people, prisons with which to punish people, and police with which to crush people. Everything else they want left in the hands of multibillion dollar corporations, I happen to think those are the organizations that will make us suffer the most when government steps aside and leaves its citizenry to their own.

  18. Amen CV Rick:

    “For Conservatives, politics is a game with two sides and there is an “anything to win” “end justifies the means” mentality. It’s a football game or a boxing match or whatever other analogy you’d like, They hate the other side with their words and actions and then to your face they say, “but it’s nothing personal.” That phrase gives them license to the most vile vitriol imaginable. ”

    I agree with you on so many levels. Conservatives do annoy me; but. I do have members in my family that are very conservative. However, I will be frank with friends and family members when their conservative actions promotes what I consider bigotry — hence a sense of small mindedness towards those who do no hold their position. I am okay with folks being conservative. But to limit their rights because conservatives believe it is not moral or just is a crap argument.

    I do like you Brandon.

    • Brandon

      Well thank you. 🙂 Now if I can just get Joe to be my friend. Maybe we can share some pints of his home brew. Mwahahahaha.

  19. Improbable Joe

    I don’t care what someone’s political label is. Brandon, you advocate harmful. hateful positions. You can label it whatever you like, but you stand on the wrong side of issues. How can I take you seriously as a human being, when you state a position that stands against being humane?

  20. Improbable Joe

    You know, I’m going to stop… even talking with bad people hurts my brain and makes me more depressed than normal.

  21. Pingback: Silence is a War Crime | The Blue Door

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