Quick Hit: I Call Bullshit

The next time I hear ANYONE complaining about a “war on religion,” or about how persecuted and undervalued religious people are, I’m going to unabashedly call bullshit.

On my way to work this morning, ALL SIX of the presets on my radio were spouting some sort of zombie Jebus Easter nonsense.

Yeah; religious people have it really bad….



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30 responses to “Quick Hit: I Call Bullshit

  1. Improbable Joe

    It’s a “war” on unearned privilege and respect, which is just a balancing of an unfairly advantageous position for religious wackaloons… and BTW, for the inevitable member of that unfairly privileged group who would claim that me calling them a “wackaloon” counts as religious persecution, grow the hell up. You and your religion don’t magically deserve respect or protection from ridicule, and that’s the start of the privilege right there.

    Zombie Jesus… what a hoot!

  2. Religion wages war and has throughout history, both literally and figuratively. Religion has never done anything for anyone (that could not have been done by secular folk). If one doesn’t concede everything these folks demand, one is “persecuting” them, or waging “war” against them. They’d be laughable if they weren’t so evil and dangerous.

  3. Brandon

    When a lot of people talk about a “war on religion”, they would be better off referring to this as a battle of worldviews. As I Christian, I am hardly persecuted in America, especially compared to what some Christians endure in other parts of the world. But there is no doubt that a battle of worldviews is taking place in the country and it is hardly surprising to see that the Christian worldview faces opposition in the public arena, in fact, it is expected.

    • Improbable Joe

      Well, yes. As we learn more about the universe, it is natural that we reject Bronze Age superstitions, especially ones as blatantly evil as Christianity.

      • Brandon

        It seems as though pretty much anything that you disagree with, whether, religion, conservatives, Republicans, etc. always seems to get labeled evil. Your use of the term is about as watered down as the racism label that also gets mindlessly attached to everything now-a-days as well.

      • Improbable Joe

        Brandon, could you be any more of a pathetic cliche? In a post about how Christians are giant whiners who claim victimhood while being the majority and always getting their way, you decide to go for the “victims of racism complain about racism too much… hell, the REAL victims here are the white majority!” move too. Wanna throw in some anti-gay speech too, for the Republican bigotry trifecta?

        Sweet Satan, you’re a fucking joke.

      • Brandon

        No Joe, you obviously missed my point. I’m not saying “victims of racism complain about racism too much… hell, the REAL victims here are the white majority!” I have no idea where you pulled that one from, other than by immediately reaching for your own misguided cliches.

        I said the way you apply the label of evil to so many things that aren’t evil waters it down from any real meaning, in the same way that things all to often get called racism that aren’t in any way racist. If you took any more than a half second glance at my comment you would have seen that I wasn’t crying victim hood about anything at all. Good grief.

  4. L B

    I prefer to call it a religious war against us, the non agree’ers. Freedom from religion is my hope.

  5. If it were not for the founders of this country you would not have your freedom of speech nor I my right to practice my religious beliefs. Do you seek inner peace by attacking those that you disagree with or by showing others your love and tranquility within? Perhaps your lack of inner peace could benefit from learning the love within, whether granted from your God and Savior or your inner enlightenment.

    • Jag

      Get over yourself. Your reference to “your God and Savior” is sadly misplaced. You’re welcome to claim that fabrication for yourself, but don’t stick that BS on the rest of us. Learn your history, and grow up a bit.

  6. That’s all well and good, Harry, but there’s a difference between being peaceful and being a doormat. I have plenty of inner peace; what I don’t have is a willingness to allow myself to be abused by those who would seek to force me to believe, behave, or understand the world as they do, and I’m seeing an AWFUL lot of that in the world lately.

    I’ve said before – a number of times, in fact – that I’m very much a live and let live kind of person. As long as what you’re doing affects only you or those who are competent to give their consent, I have no issue with your behavior or your belief. It’s when that stuff starts leaking out into my life – or worse, public policy – that I have a problem.

    • You know you can allways turn off the radio and tune into your inner self. You sound like you are carring a heavy load. Let it go. Don’t let things get to you. Leave others to tune in to what ever channel they choose.
      Even our Muslum brother desire the right to hear their call to prayers.

      • Harry- we have the pervasive problem now of employers (no protections anymore) determining religion of employees and discriminating them to hell. I’m always kind of horrified to hear ‘just turn it off’. Evangelicals make that as impossible a they can. One of my favorite Christian quotes: “I don’t know why my freedom doesn’t allow me to believe as I please and to spread my religion all over”. WHAT? Seriously, who cannot see the problem with that? I’d like to know.

      • Below, regarding the comment, my view is that it’s perfectly ok to believe what you like and to be vocal of it. The 2nd half of that quote however- that’s the problem.

  7. K

    Without getting into the politics, history, etc… I just wanted to share an angle on this (not specifically this post, but your general themes in online writing lately) that might not have occurred to you. Thing is, the Religious Right horrifies me and enrages me. And one of the things that upsets me the most about them, is that they ruin Christianity for everyone and cause people like you to hate religion – which maybe you don’t, but nearly every one of your recent FB posts sends that message – when there is, in fact, so much good being done by Christians. Do I think there’s a war on religion? I don’t know. But I FEEL like there’s a war on me and my many friends and family members who honor God in the same way I do. I am a member of the Religious Left, and my eyes fill with tears when I see anti-Christian screeds that are focused at the Religious Right but which scorch me as well – especially when they come from people I love as friends and respect as colleagues. I wish that atheists would remember that all Christians aren’t the Religious Right anymore than… oh, I dunno… all black men wearing hoodies are criminals.

    • Just want to say that another problem with the communications on this important topic is the tendency of readers to assume (not that you have) that we’re lumping ALL Christians in with the bunch that are abusive. I’ve learned that many Christians do not acknowledge secular Christianity. By this, they refuse to acknowlege a large chunk of the population. I am disturbed to know that such a large segment of my own brothers and sisters would as soon have me dead or at least banished for my secular beliefs. It’s amazing.

    • Jen

      Kate, I hear your frustration, but you must see that you are in a decided – and mostly silent – minority when it comes to stuff like this. We can’t hear you over all the hate and vile that your fellows are screeching at the tops of their voices.
      Have you seen this?

      How many good people of compassion and humanitarian conviction continue to support institutions that behave in ways they find wrong? I struggled with this for a long time, and I finally came to the conclusion that “MY pastor doesn’t say things like that” or “MY church doesn’t support these terrible positions” wasn’t enough to satisfy the gnawing feeling that I really was supporting those terrible things simply by virtue of my association with the larger group. I’m an independent Christian now. I follow Christ in my own way, which leaves me free to support women’s rights, to love and honor my gay friends and neighbors, and to condemn the hypocrisy and hatred I see coming from so-called “religious” leaders and institutions. I have slept much better since making the break.

      I thought about it much like I think about my buying choices and my political affiliations. I won’t use my money to support companies that behave unethically. I won’t connect myself to a political party that behaves in ways that I can’t condone (so I’m an independent, though I most often vote for democrats). No group is perfect – everyone understands that – and I know I’m only one small person, but when the “not perfect” crosses a line that I refuse to cross for myself, I’m willing to step away for my own sake.

      • K

        I DON’T consider my church wrong. Those of you who have given up on the church might, if you ever want that church community experience, try the United Methodists. We seem to be fairly sane. I’m not a real big “churchy” person – I believe that churches and rituals are human constructs, not spiritual ones – but then again, I also acknowledge that I’m human and that as such I crave community and ceremony. I don’t guess I can speak for every UMC, but mine is located in one of the most conservative states in the union, and we open our doors and arms wide to everyone – gay, straight, any color, any age, any social status, baptized or not, you name it.

        In regards to being a silent minority – I think you’re wrong. I think we’re a drowned-out majority. Between the noisy Republican Right Rallies and the equally loud Atheist Pride Parades, those of us who are trying to live Christ’s actual teachings can’t get a word in edgewise. The problem, I guess, is that the Right encompasses the evangelical (that is, professional noise-makers) tradition, and the Religious Left tends to be more along the lines of the “let’s not drive people away by obnoxious recruitment tactics” philosophy.

        Do I wish the Religious Left were a squeakier wheel? Yes. But I also wish others would stop hollering about how awful Christians are and how superior you are because you are atheists, long enough to listen.

  8. Improbable Joe

    I think people also make the mistake of considering criticism of religion to be a personal attack. Folks, I don’t really know most of you, but I assume most of you are probably somewhere near the middle of the normal spectrum of decent behavior? Religion is, in my opinion and for what I consider to be VERY good reasons, inherently a bad thing period. Any good you can get from religion can be had elsewhere, without the bad baggage attached. Sort of like alcohol, if you think about it… always toxic, beneficial in certain people in certain situations, but said benefit can be had through other methods without the toxicity.

    None of that makes religious people inherently bad… it just makes you WRONG. And that’s cool, as long as you keep your wrong to yourself, which most people do anyway.

    • K

      I could say the exact same thing from the other end of the spectrum, Joe. You believe that “religion is bad and religious people are wrong and should keep their wrongness to themselves”. Others could say that
      “athetism is bad and atheists are wrong and should keep their atheism to themselves”.

      So… did I convince you? Because you didn’t convince me. Why are we arguing about this? Is anyone really going to change their spiritual beliefs based on someone else thinking they’re wrong? Why do atheists think that Christians should keep faith to themselves, but are so insistent on not keeping atheism to themselves?

      Why are y’all angry at someone posting “He is risen!” on Facebook, and then turn around and post “religion is dumb, people are stupid for believing in zombie Jesus” all over the place? Isn’t that just a TOUCH hypocritical?

      • Jag

        The objection is NOT to your personal beliefs, or to those of any christian, really. The objection is to the insistance of a vocal group of christians that is determined to pass their dogma into law, and demand that everyone follow beliefs that may be in serious conflict with their own.
        Rather than come here, and complain about how unfair this is, and that you resent being painted with the same foul brush, perhaps you would be better derved by speaking directly to those christians who are the ones whose behavior is the REAL cause of your upset. We already know that they are behaving in a way that reflects quite badly on religion. They’re pretty unlikely to listen to us, don’t you agree? Why don’t you go talk to them?

      • Brandon

        What kind of dogmas are they trying to pass into law? I have some ideas of what I think you are likely referring to, but I figure I should ask before I make those assumptions.

      • Kris

        Before I respond to your question, I’m going to point out that you completely ignored mine to you.

        And, equally seriously: Wow, miss the point much?

        Having gotten that out of the way, I’ll do you the courtesy of responding to your seemingly sincere question with this: If there’s a “war” on anything in this country at the moment, it’s a war on women’s rights. And yes, I freely admit that my mind is SLAMMED SHUT to any argument that tries to say otherwise. If you think I’m exaggerating or over-reacting, look up what’s been passed in Arizona and Texas lately. Until you can come up with a non-laugable defense of that disgusting behavior, there’s nothing for you and I to talk about on this issue.

        Again, are you speaking out, loudly, clearly, unmistakably, and specifically to the christians you feel are representing christians badly?

      • Kris

        Ah, to clarify any confusion, “Jag” and “Kris” are the same poster. I was multi-taking, apparently rather poorly.

        And I just realized that I replied to Brandon as if he (assumed) was K. I should probably stop posting until I’ve eaten something…

      • Improbable Joe

        K, I make a rather LONG argument over on my blog, under the atheism tag. Unless you’ve got an argument that can A)match it and B)doesn’t rely on quoting a religious text, then I think I’m in a better position than you are.

      • Brandon

        Kris – Well that at least clears things up a bit since I was quite confused as to how I had ignored a question that had not been asked to me. Despite the initial comment being directed to K, it does seem like you were also responding to my question. My seemingly sincere question was sincere. I had guesses as to what you were referring to when you referenced dogma but I figured I should ask.

        Although you replied, you didn’t really provide specifics other than a directive to look up legislation in Arizona and Texas. Seems you could have been more specific than that. Without those specifics, but given that I live in Texas, I’ll go with the assumption that the dogmas you were referring to involved abortion and that you are referring to the sonogram bill that was passed in the previous session. Is that the case?

  9. Kagen Alexander

    Is this a chicken-and-egg question? Who has to stop talking first?
    It’s a pointless effort to do the whole “he started it!” thing, but from where I sit, atheists are simply responding to what they’re seeing. If there’s nothing to argue against, they wouldn’t be arguing. I’ve never met an atheist who was all that into proselytizing.

    • Improbable Joe

      I think Chili’s point was that only one side wants someone to stop talking, and that’s the extremist religious folks. They then pretend that it is a zero-sum game, that the existence of other voices somehow silences their voice, the same way the keep claiming that gay marriages somehow affect their own marriages. It is the language of the spoiled bully, which is what most of the bigger, more fundamentalist churches are when you get down to it.

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